Ive posted tis in the general forum too so apologies if you've read it before.

Has anyone out there found a solution to the problem of having a pickup(jack socket whole) drilled.
I use a Fishman Rare Earth Custom Blend and as a pro player I need this pickup fulltime. The thing is I really don't want to drill a big whole in the spine of my newly aquired 0003G.
I didn't mind so much in the Gibsons I was using previously but a Collings is a different matter isn't it. The problem for me in having wires hanging around is that I tour constantly so this could be a real pain.
Please help.

Patrick.
http://www.patrickbriscoe.com

Hey Patrick - I had this same struggle when I purchased my first Collings, a OM2BA. Being Brazilian wood, people said I was crazy for gigging with it. I bought the guitar to play, not hang on a wall. The idea of drilling a hole through the bridge and enlarging the strap pin hole was unsettling to say the least. Bottomline...I am a working musician who needs the guitar to perform. I found no alternative that worked for me - I don't stand still when I play so I couldn't use a mic and I don't want a cord following me so I use a wireless system. Enlarging the hole and drilling one in the bridge has been a great move for me. I had it done professionally....but did not watch!! LOL
Make a desicion that is best for you and your shows, not the guitar.

Good day to you!

"Make a desicion that is best for you and your shows, not the guitar". Now that's the best advice I've had on the subject, thank-you Edward.
Your right, the pick-up must be installed.
Thankfully on the Fishman I use now there's no need for a whole in the bridge, just the strap stud, although I did have this done in my Gibson A.J. so I sympathise.

Good man.

Patrick.

http://www.patrickbriscoe.com

you can buy a "vintage jack" that just replaces the end pin with a 1/8th input, and then you just use an adapter. The enpin jack is tapered and shaped just like a normal endpin, no drilling or modifications made. You can even obtain one in ivory, ebony, or brass. The company that makes them will send you one for 80 bucks and you can retrofit it to any pickup,
Michael
Here is a link:
http://www.tapastring.com/vintagejack.htm
or here is a pickup with one already installed
http://www.pick-uptheworld.com/

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Dredpicker,

The technologies will advance to the point that some company (hopefully a good one) will design and manufacture a small wireless transmitter that hides inside the body of an acoustic. No drilling of any kind done to the instrument. By using K&Ks, no drilling of the bridge, as well. It's just a matter of an adhesive mounting of the transducers to the bottom of the bridge plate--using the tape between if desired. All completely "non-invasive."

I have a Vintage Jack, yet to be installed. What concerns me is the mini-jack and its holding power, when the inevitable tug occurs when you come to the end of your rope. But using a guitar strap, and binding the mini-jack-to-1/4" phono-jack pigtail that comes with the VJ to the strap--or the instrument cable itself, as is often done--it should work well.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: tonosity,

No worries...I use a vintage jack all the time in my D2ABaaavarnishsb...The little adapter they give you with the jack, I'm not terribly impressed with because its bulky part is right where it can bump on the body of the guitar. I had Dieter make me a small cord 1/8" to 1/4" that goes to my K&K preamp...He's going to make me another for when I use the 'phase' preamp.

I stopped by to talk with Dieter a couple days ago (K&K is close by and I was also checking out the new tube preamp...mine is getting finished...killer. The highs are fuller, fatter...anyway, a different thread but I'm thinking something that might help a mando pickup?)

I've had the vintagejack pull out a couple of times, mostly when I'm playing later in the night after mucho tequila. I put a bit of the resin on it or violin bow resin and stick it back in...no worries. I've never had any issue with the stability of the 90 degree 1/8" mini jack...strong.

I know it will last "Longer than 24 hours!"


Kia Manuia,

Dale

www.daleinskeep.com

Oooh, nice. subtle. little zinger at the end, there.

Anyway, be sure to check the Demeter Tube Direct box. Really works well with the K&Ks due its relatively sensitive input and the relatively lower output current of K&Ks. I know there's a more precise, technical way of expressing that, but it's true anyway. And I just love the absence of batteries in the setup.

Yes, I noticed the little bag of rosin that comes with the VJ. The instructions say to use it to make the jack bind in the endpin hole better, or as needed.

So that can fail and the VJ can pull-out after too much Patron? Hmmmm.

Yep, on the Patron...It's only happened with the VJ twice and not for quite a while.

K&K's tube preamp is all about the power supply...Dieter explained it to me, but to get the proper power and to keep it perfectly quiet is quite a task. Also, it has a solid state and tube and the tube can't be turned up too much or you would get distortion...it takes a bit to play around with, then it's set and sounds incredible...I'll check the Demeter D. Box...thanks...

Kia Manuia,

Dale

www.daleinskeep.com

I talked with Frank Ford (the master repairman at Gryphon in Palo Alto, and the man behind www.frets.com) last Saturday, to get something adjusted on a guitar, and had the opportunity to ask him about the Vintage Jack. His statement was: “If you’re going to put a pickup on a guitar, put a pickup on the guitar. Bore the 1/2" hole, and put a proper jack in it. I though we had finally gotten rid of the mini-jack! (He’s not a fan of people treating their guitars like precious objects, in trying to keep them as un-violated as possible, using these minimally invasive gadgets.) People come in here and pickup an expensive acoustic, and ask: "so how much is this going to be worth next year?" It’s a guitar to be played, not a piece of real estate!”

My take-away from his comments were 1) a guitar, regardless of cost, is an instrument for to be played, and if you need it amplified with a pickup, do it properly. 2) After thinking about it, the mini-jack could be technically inferior to a standard 1/4" jack, for this purpose. Aside from having to specially secure it to prevent the mini-jack’s 1/4” adaptor pig tail, so it won’t pull-out, or by building a special cord that converts to a standard mono 1/4" plug, it has less metal-to-metal contact than that of a 1/4" plug and jack, and therefore, shouldn't be able carry the current as well, from the low-current pickups to the external preamp (using K&Ks) as well as a standard plug and jack. This contact-area and current concept hasn't been empirically tested, to my knowledge, but it does make sense to me.

I’ve got two of them, special-ordered with Brazilian for the endpin. (So, my opinion isn't tainted by not having already made the choice to buy them.) Frank has made me think twice about installing them. I also don’t like the idea of the whole tapered jack itself pulling-out, if tugged on hard (as Dale was describing). If that were to happen, that could also pull on the transducers of the K&Ks glued to the underside of the bridge, and do damage to the either the wiring and/or the bridge plate within the guitar.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: tonosity,

Time to chime in.

I've installed a couple dozen vintage jacks connected to various pickups - probably a third of those in Collings guitars. They're very high quality and if anything more secure and substantial feeling than many quarter inch jacks that are widely used these days. The right angle jack that comes with the product is from Switchcraft and has a thoroughly bombproof feel. The parts are nothing like the 'hobby store style' mini jacks which we are so used to seeing.
Though I'm not an electrical engineer I wonder if the very small solder connections which we make in both 1/8" ands 1/4" jacks are more constrictive in regards to current flow than the size of the plug. If that's the case then the size of the plug becomes moot.
In consideration of not being afraid to drill a half inch hole in your guitar. Well, why do it if it's not necessary? I wouldn't recommend upgrading to a vintage jack in a low end guitar or a workhorse/beater, but in a fine instrument I believe it can be a wise choice - even a 'no-brainer.'

Good points. I was hoping I didn't buy these in vain.

Are there any tricks with the rosin (or other means) to keep them bound into the tapered endpin hole?

Obviously there is no right or wrong answer to the "drill or not" question, just personal preference. My preference is to enjoy playing my guitars and do what's best for my playing. I want to minimize my alterations within the framework of "playing comes first".