I have two dreds, both with vintage or thru saddles. The action on each, measured at the 12th fret, is 6/64 at low E and 4/64 at high E. The saddle of one has been shaved down to get to this spec where the other remains unaltered. As you can see from the pics, the difference in saddle height between the two dreds is, in my opinion significant. It seems to me that if the action on each, measured at the 12th are the same, yet the saddle heights are different, the neck angle on each guitar cannot be the same. Generally speaking does a guitar with more saddle height give greater volume and sustain or are these qualities related not to the saddle height, but to the break angle of the strings over the saddle? Can anyone tell me by looking at the pics of the two saddles whether I should send the dread with the shaved saddle in for possible neck reset and new saddle?
From what I know, which is what I have read, the break angle is supposed to help get energy to the top. (i.e. I have never had the opportunity to compare a guitar after a neck reset/ raised saddle). A low saddle often indicates it is time for a neck reset, that is usually after a decade or more of playing.
My Collings D2HA saddle height is pretty normal.
My Guild, which is heavily modified, has a through saddle which is unusually high. I often worry that it will create a crack in the bridge, but nothing in 6 years. For a Guild, as modified, it is loud. How much is because of the saddle height and how much from the other 5-6 tweaks, I don't know.
The first one seems to have a sorta shallow string break on the trebles. But what do I know. :-)
As an aside, I've wondered why more luthiers don't adopt the design of having the saddle slanted back towards the tail maybe 10-15 degrees. Seems to make sense in terms of angles and string force and all that.
This message has been edited. Last edited by: northernbreed,
Posts: 295 | Location: Da U.P., eh? | Registered: June 15, 2007
Both are Winfields. The one with the lower saddle is an 2006 I picked up used. The one with the unaltered saddle 2007 purchased new at the start of the year. I am also thinking the treble strings do not have enough of a break on the cw with the lower saddle. Hopefully the pics are good enough for some one in the know to tell me yes or no.
Derf, the first CW looks like it has had its saddle shaved to lower the action thus reducing the breakaway angle quite a bit. This is not normal for a CW. I would guess that you don't need a neck reset but rather a truss rod adjustment and subsequent installation of a new saddle (please, no shims) to restore tone, volume etc. If you feel up to it there are lots of posts telling you how to access the truss-rod adjustment nut and what tools to use. Good luck.
There is a range of what works for break angles. Although the on the first picture the break angle is on the shallow side it may well be fine tone wise. It depends on things such as the particular guitar soundboard and on how hard you play. You mainly want enough downward pressure to keep the strings from slipping on the saddle. You can try lifting the treble string off the saddle by coming up under it with your finger tip. If it has not lifted off by the time your finger starts to hurt it is probably fine in most cases. You can get a little more break angle with the existing neck set by slotting the peg holes, but I am not necessarily suggesting to do that. That might be a more plausible option on a dovetailed neck rather than a bolt on which is easy to reset. A break angle can also be too steep but the second picture looks ok. Too steep may cause more broken strings, decreased sound quality due to grooving of the saddle and/or too much torque on the top. Also bridge failure (lifting off or cracking) is more likely. It could be a truss rod adjustment like collingscowboy suggested. See what gap if any there is under the string around the 5th to seventh fret when you hold down that string at the 1st and 14th frets. My two cents. Rick
In my experience, the first guitar does not have enough break angle. This not only affects volume, but the fullness of tone. I just got back my 40 year old Gallagher from guitar whisperer Ed Reynolds(Collings consultant), and he put a new saddle in with a more pronounced break angle. The guitar, which already sounded really good,has been transformed to the wonder I first heard back in 1974.
What bill b. said...I recently purchased a used OM with a cut through saddle. It had great action, 2/64, but there was a lot of fret buzz along with modest volume and decent, not wonderful, tone. Eric Schoenberg's shop replaced the saddle with a taller one and adjusted the truss rod. Voila, 100% improvement in tone and volume.
Posts: 80 | Location: San Rafael, CA | Registered: May 09, 2008
That's *plenty* of break angle in the first picture. There's absolutely no need or upside, tonally or for any other reason, for a neck reset here. Play and enjoy!
Posts: 10 | Location: Santa Cruz, CA | Registered: September 05, 2005
Low action and proper break angle at the saddle, while related, are not mutually exclusively, if I'm understanding the concepts correctly. If the neck is set right, you can have a proper break angle, and still have the action quite low.
Vagdad, I've found the same thing you've described on occasion, i.e. if the action goes too low, the tone suffers. That's why I've avoided super low action. I've kept the action a bit higher than usual for me on my McAlister OM28 since its got a cut through saddle which I don't want to go too low on, and the tone is just outstanding as is. You can play with whatever attack you want, and there's no buzz, the tone is stellar, and the action is still fairly low. No reason to mess with success.
Tom
Posts: 1319 | Location: CA, USA | Registered: November 20, 2006
Originally posted by Matt Mustapick: That's *plenty* of break angle in the first picture. There's absolutely no need or upside, tonally or for any other reason, for a neck reset here. Play and enjoy!
Matt, glad to hear you say that. It is what I thought from my personal experiences. Rick
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