I just purchased a Collings D-1 and my friends are salivating all over it! I would like to add a pickup and I was wondering if anyone had any recommendations. There are a couple of considerations that are important to me. First and foremost, it needs to capture the natural and amazing sound this guitar produces. Also, ease of changing the batteries and battery life are important. Obviously I want it to be as unobtrusive as possible (no gaudy eq in the side of the guitar for me!), so keeping modifications to a minimum is preferred. There are a couple options I was considering:


Fishman makes a magnetic pickup that clips onto the sound hole (Humbucking Rare Earth Series), which is nice because it can be removed when not in use and doesn't even require reaming a hole for the 1/4 inch jack. LR Baggs also makes a "Dual Source" pickup with preamp that mounts in the sound hole. Or I could just go with the traditional undersaddle pickup.


I'd greatly appreciate input or suggestions from people who have already tried these or other pickup options. Thanks for your help!

Nick

Please don't do this. It's a desecration.

I'm aware that there are gig situations where you have to plug in, but you can buy a cardboard Takamine with very sophisticated electronics, and it'll sound just as good amplified as your Collings would sound played through a pickup. A superb acoustic should stay acoustic.

Get an AKG C1000S, or similar mike, put it on a stand in front of the guitar, if the Collings has to be louder...

Just my opinion.

Peter.

Nick,

I happen to be acquainted with Scott Fore, Winfield flat-picking champ for 2002. (He has two Collings dreads he won at Winfield, but currently is suffering what I predict will be a short-lived flirtation with Bourgeois.) He flatpicks, fingerpicks, frails a banjo, and in general values and seeks the acoustic sound. When he does need to plug in, he uses what I think is a relatively new system (in which I have no financial interest!) called SCHERTLER BLUESTICK PICKUP. He seems to think he gets pretty close to the acoustic sound with it. Sold at Elderly, other web outlets.

Congratulations on your D-1. I've owned one for about 6 months now and I think it is a fantastic guitar. And I know what you mean about keeping a saliva rag handy when friends want to try it!

B

I wish I could tell you what to buy. I think how loud you need to be makes a difference. Mics sounds great, but you can't get loud enough to keep up with the volume of most bar bands. I have a performance coming up where I will play acoustic amplified for the first time on nearly 20 years. I'm going to use a lavalier mic clipped on the soundhole. I can't get real loud, but loud enough for what I'm doing, and it will sound like an acoustic guitar.

I have a good amount of experience gigging with acoustic guitars in many different settings. This is a subject that is near and dear to my heart. After many years of trying many different p/u’s and combinations of p/u’s and mics, etc, I’ve come to only one conclusion. That is…when it comes to acoustic amplification, nothing is perfect and there will always be trade-offs and compromises. It really (like many other things) comes down to what works and is most comfortable for you and your particular taste and situation.

A couple of key questions to answer, which will help determine which p/u and system will work for you are…

Where will you be performing? Loud bars, listening rooms, festivals, small cafes and coffee houses, back yard barbeques, in a church setting, stadiums or wherever.

Will you be performing solo, with a group, a band with bass and drums?

Do you primarily play one particular style or combination? Hard strumming, intricate finger style, country picking or combination of different styles.

How much money do you have to spend on p/u, p/u system, installation, preamp, etc?

I could make a decent recommendation if I knew the answers to the above questions. Over the years I have found that a p/u system that combines two sources works best for me and is the most versatile. I have used a Highlander under the saddle p/u combined with an internal mini-mic and blended the stereo signal via a Raven Labs PMB-1 blender.

On the plus side…This system is very versatile. The Highlander mini-mic combination provides a very accurate representation of a guitars acoustic sound. The smaller and quieter the venue was, the more mic I could put in the mix, which really sounded, like my guitar. In a larger room, in a club or playing with a band, the Highlander alone was a clear, strong, reasonably accurate and feedback free signal that could cut through the mix. The Raven Labs blender is a great box. A preamp, a DI and a blender all in one.

On the minus side…not cheap, proper and professional installation absolutely essential, battery inside the guitar, some modification (i.e.- drilling and saddle slot routing) necessary. Due to stage volume and in some rooms it was impossible to avail myself of the use of the mini-mic, it would feedback through the stage monitors.

I just recently got a Collings SJ, which I love! I didn’t want to put a battery in the guitar, I didn’t want any saddle slot routing. I wanted the p/u system to be the least invasive as possible, but also I wanted natural sound that was practical and versatile. I now use a Pick-Up-the-World system. I use their stealth under the saddle p/u in combination with their current soundboard transducer. No batteries in the guitar. I use their external preamp module which plugs into the quarter inch endpin jack outside the guitar. The battery is in this module, not inside the guitar. Incredibly natural sound at reasonably high volume levels. I’ve had absolutely no feedback issues. I don’t know if this would be the p/u system of choice if I were playing with my band in clubs at super high stage volume. But for solo and duo situations in many different types of venues this system has worked wonderfully for me. Professional installation is absolutely essential, but the whole system p/u’s, endpin jack, preamp module and installation were under $450. But it’s a lot of bang for the buck. I could have spent $1,300 on a Pendulum Preamp and another $500 on some other pick-up combo but I’m really happy with this system. As crazy as it sounds, at least up until this point, I haven’t needed to use any EQ. So I travel light. No need for the Raven Labs blender. Preamp module into the endpin jack and quarter inch cable direct to DI or mixing board. It’s really basically plug and play. I have no affiliation with Pick-Up-the-World, but I’ve talked to the owner David Enke several times. He is a great guy, very informative and helpful.

As always there is a compromise. Since I didn’t want to put batteries inside the guitar, I need to either use the preamp module or some other preamp. I have not found the use of the module to be awkward, I but suppose someone might.

Anyhow, sorry for the longwinded post. I’d be happy to give further feedback if you care to provide more specifics as usage, etc. Good luck!

Dave

Thanks for the info so far (the more "longwinded" the better). As to the clarifications you requested, I don't imagine that I will be playing at any loud bars or anything like that. Most likely it will see more church use than anything else, but I'd also like to use it for recording (stereo: pickup on one side, external mic on the other). Usually I play with small groups of people without a lot of stage noise, and I strum with a little picking from time to time. I'm a grad student, so funds are somewhat limited. I'd like to get away paying less than $250, but I can save my pennies and pay more if it will make a significant difference in sound quality. The undersaddle version of the Pick-Up-the-World you mention sounds nice. A bit pricey, but I like the external preamp and not having to remove any wood (except for the endpin jack). Any other suggestions are certainly appreciated. Thanks again.

For the use you are anticipating, I think I would echo what folks are saying about microphones. I did the singer-songwriter thing for a couple of years, and got lots of comments on how good my old HD-28 sounded through a mic as compared to other folks who came through those venues with their instrument plugged in.

If you feel like you want the freedom to move around, you could try the suggestion of clipping a lavalier to the soundhole. FWIW, every Monday night in the summer, I facilitate an outdoor sing-along for 200-300 people. I clip a high-quality Shure wireless omni-directional lavalier to my shirt between the 1st and 2nd buttons, and we run the wireless receiver's signal through a 100 wt Bogen amp. I get plenty of volume and clarity for both my voice and the guitar, which participants report they can hear just fine over 250 voices. And I get regular compliments on my voice (ah-hem) and my guitar (that D-1 I mentioned), so I think the quality must be pretty good.

Obviously I'm no expert, but if you like the acoustic sound, I think mics are the way to go if you can fit them to your situation. Jack Lawrence and Doc Watson travel with a sound man who is an expert, and, as great as they are, they always just sound OK to my ears because they always plug in their wonderful instruments.

B

I'm playing my OM1 with a band when we do acoustic guitars and the only pickup I've found that works for me is a Sunrise soundhole pickup. It has the dynamic feel that none of the piezo's can match and feedback is not an issue.

A removable soundhole pickup of the magnetic persuasion gets my vote, the fishman rare earth sound pretty good for part time use and you're not married. A good preamp helps.

Hey Particle Man-

I hear ya. Remember, always trade-offs.

I agree, for natural sound, there's nothing better than a microphone in front of the guitar. Limitations are that, number one, you can’t move around and number two, there’s always going to be some concern with feedback issues, trust me.

In terms of a clip-on or internal mini-mics…if blended with another source, it can be very effective, but as a single source, I really don’t think it will consistently do the trick for you. It’s not at all versatile. In my opinion, a mini-mic alone will not give you a very accurate representation of the sound of your acoustic guitar. Plus, you will most likely need to use phantom power to power an internal or small clip-on mic. That means you will need a preamp that has phantom power or the mixing board you plug into must have phantom power.

All things considered I recommend using two different types of p/u’s or a mic & p/u combo and blending the signals via the preamp, however I understand the money issues. So, start off with one p/u and maybe down the road you can add another or a mini-mic, etc.

Plus, you can always stand or sit in front of an external mic and use only the amount of signal from the pick up that’s necessary. But the pick-up’s signal will be there if you need it, like if you go to an open mic night or you’re jamming in someone’s basement or your just performing in situations where the use of an external mic is impossible. It will also give you a viable signal to use when recording. I know that was a concern of yours.

If you don't want a battery in your guitar, then you've got to go with a passive pick-up. If you have a passive pick-up, that means you must use a preamp. In addition, the preamp needs to be close to the pick-up (the closer the better) or there will be to some degree of signal degradation. That translates into loosing some of the dynamics of your amplified sound. Trade-offs again. But, to me, worth it.

There are many choices…

My choice (if I was in your situation) would be a PUTW (Pick-Up-the-World) Stealth under-the-saddle pick up and a PUTW Power Plug Pre-Amp. Probably around $260 plus maybe $40 or $50 for installation. I know a bit more than you want to spend. But, it would also give you some options down the road. It would be a no fuss, minimal or no EQ plug and play thing. It would be extremely minimally invasive to your guitar. Then when possible you can still stand in front of an on-stage mic. Check out their site.

You could put any number of LR Baggs passive Pickups in your guitar and buy the Baggs Para Acoustic DI/Preamp (which is a great little box) the same is true with Fishman products, or B-Band. Gosh there are still a lot of other options for you. Just too many to go into.

Sunrise pick-ups are great p/u’s and are still the industry standard when it comes to acoustic magnetic p/u’s. For band and loud volume situations there may be no better option. But for what you’re doing, I’m not sure it’s the right choice. I used a Sunrise pick-up in a Lowden for a year. The positive’s…Great loud clean signal. No feedback worries. The minuses…Heavy pick-up that goes in the sound hole that weighs down the top of the guitar, needs EQ, needs compatible preamp and is not a very true representation of an acoustic guitar. It’s a cool sound, but not accurate. Some new generation under the saddle and soundboard transducers have the Sunrise beat in terms of a “truer” acoustic sound. This is to my ears only.

These are just my own thoughts from my own experience. A guy that I took one of my guitars to (who happens to be one of the premier guitar repair/restoration guys around anywhere) said …”people come to me with their beautiful $3,000 guitars and ask me to stick a $100 pick-up in it and they expect it to sound good…” It’s not about the money, but you get the point.

I really hope this is of some value to you. Good luck.

Dave

www.murphyworld.com

What about the new Baggs M-1...I think that's the model. Or isn't it out yet? I'm also looking for something I can put in and remove with no fuss or routing/poking holes in my Camper and NO extra gadgets....plug n play as they say. Or,would even the M-1 need a pre-amp,EQ,etc.Whadda ya say Acoustic Dave?

Particle_man,I'm from Central PA too and just sold my most excellent D-1 to a guy in Clearfield. Leave your e-mail and I'll drop you a line. My computers down right now and I'm mailing from a third party. Thanks,and as my friend says....Collings rulz the rest drulz!

Particle:
I have a Baggs Double Barrel in my D2H now which sounds pretty good to me. But I run it through a Rane AP13 preamp and use a nice Lexicon effects unit (unplugged?? hardly...) which, although I use it very sparingly, is not a true acoustic sound. Greg at Classic Axe (the guy Kim Sherman uses a lot) put it in, and said it was about the best for the money at the tiem, IF I wanted mic / pickup, IF I didn't want a control knob in the soundhole, and if I was trying to spend about $140 or so, installed. But that was in 2001. Since then baggs has developed The Element, a new under-saddle which they say is better than the ribbon transducer, although their website suggest using the ribbon with a mic instead of the Element. Also, the IBeam is supposed to be good, but Baggs doesn't recommend putting it with a mic. I don't know why not, but that was the factory guy's opinion.
Many nice systems out there. Usage is important. Good luck.

cowboycamper,

I don't much care for leaving my email in the open on the net (spambots and the like). If you wish to contact me, look up the name Nicholas Conklin at www.psu.edu/ph. You shouldn't have any trouble finding me.

If anyone missed it, I posted on another thread a really good website I found with pickup reviews. To my ear, the Pick-Up-The-World #54 is the only real choice, but we all have different ears (thankfully).

http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/pickuptest.htm