I’m curious if any of you good people use the K & K mini combined with an internal microphone into the K & K Quantum Blender?

I use the K & K mini with the Pure XLR preamp with very nice results but I miss a little of that air and string sound you get when you dual source with a pick-up and internal mic.

I’m probably going to add the internal microphone and get the Quantum Blender OR take a leap of faith with the new Progression Tube pre-amp.

Any thoughts?

Dave

Dave: I've been pondering a similar path. A couple months back, I talked to Dieter at K&K. It was his opinion that with the pure western mini and the tube pre-amp, you don't need a mini mic or anything else. He says it sounds like a good studio mic, e.g. Neumann or Sennheiser, and I believe him, based on the performance of the pure western mini, which I now have nothing but in my performance guitars. Now, how to pony up 600 for the preamp. Gulp. Again. tom

Tom: I talked to Dieter as well. Good knowledgeable guy who has an excellent product. It's also nice to talk to the boss.

In the real world (at real gigs) I know it's hard to bring in any more than a little mic signal into the mix, but that little usually gives the sound just enough air and high end (reality) to make for a pretty damn good overall amplified tone.

But if the tube pre is everything he says it is, then to me it may be well worth the investment. Then I can keep it simple and deal with one signal and I don't have to hassle with the internal microphone mix.

Hmmmm?????? Any more thoughts?

Thanks.

dave

I'm trying to work out a deal with the local guitar shop, which has installed pure western mini pickups in, I think, five of my guitars (two of which I retain), starting when no one knew what the hey they were. I was the first in the area to try 'em. I'm sold. Though I certainly trust Dieter's word, I want to be able to try it without a non-refundable 625 buck entry fee. That's a lot of money for a product no one outside the K&K shop has played or reviewed. So, I'm negotiating for a discount to be the guinea porker, and offset the cost, in part, by fencing my Baggs Para-DI. I'm old enough now I don't want to compromise the tone of guitars as good as these. If you want generic tone, play a Taylor or stick a Sunrise in it. Good, reliable tone, but don't try to convince me it sounds like a Collings in your living room. That's what I want. The places we play are not guitar mic friendly- too many other sound sources, too much ambient room noise (read: loud drunks), and no mobility (not that I do Chuck Berry duck walks any more). I'm trying my best to make it happen, and, if it does, I'll post my impressions here. As you may be able to tell, I'm fussy about the guitar sound coming out of the speakers. Too many years in too many clubs putting up with artificial vanilla sound. You have the right idea: one signal to the board, period. That's how I send the electric guitar: a beta 57 to the right of center in the Jensen, and that's it. I don't want pedal boards, forests of wires, knob tweaking for an hour at sound check. Life's too freakin' short, and getting shorter. tom

I have my doubts that the topology of an acoustic guitar preamp can replace the sonic performance of a microphone. Whether solid state or tube, the function of a good preamp is to amplify the weak source signal up to line level. Granted, some preamps add more color than others and some are very transparent. EQ circuity can and often does alter the sound of the source - that's what it is supposed to do. The new K&K preamp is actually hybrid design - a solid state first gain stage and eq (it's actually the same as the K&K XLR preamp) with a tube driven second gain stage. A fairly vanilla design - hardly an innovation.

The K&K mini does not generate a flat response. It is actually quite afar from flat response, and there is quite a dip in the high frequencies. A good tube preamp will sound hi-fi, not gritty, and will provide a wonderful HF response. Coupled with EQ, I have little doubt that the new K&K preamp will outperfrom the K&K XLR preamp. But it won't take the place of a microphone.

I've plugged a K&K mini into a Pendulum Audio MDP-1a, one of the finest tube preamps/DIs on the planet. While is certainly sounds great, it sounds much much better when a microphone is added as a second source.

In a band setting onstage in the kind of public places in which most gigs take place, a microphone does not work. OF course they're better, at least at this stage of technological development of pickups and the signal chains they generate. My son is a recording engineer. We have Sennheiser, Rode, AKG, Shure, the whole shebang, and I'd love to have the luxury of putting a thousand dollar mic in front of my Collings, but I'm a middle class guy trying to make the most of the practical limitations in front of me, and K&K has come the closest so far in replicating, albeit less perfectly, what a good mic can do. I know: how do you get to Carnegie Hall? Practice. Exactly. Ain't gonna happen for this old boy. Imperfections, the bugaboo of human life. tom

There's really not a single answer -- depends on the situation and what the minimum sound requirements are for that particular situation. Sometimes subtle nuances of sound are very important and sometimes they're not . . . It's not unusual to see players with great rigs that are completely unnecessary and vice-versa (although the former seems to be more common).

Acoustic Dave -- what will you use your set-up for?

Sdelsolray- I definitely hear what you're saying, it makes a lot of sense.

If can get 20-25% of the mix out of the internal mic and the remainder from the pure-mini pickups, I suspect I will find the mix using the mic more realistic, representative and to my liking...no matter what Dieter says.

I've employed the use of internal mini-mics in the past with a lot of success...but over the last few years I've gravitated to the K & K for both their sound quality and non-invasiveness of their installation. I play mostly solo or as a duo and mostly in performer friendly venues, so I think I can get just enough volume out of a mini-mic that will give me what I need without going into the boomy feedback mode.

But the way Dieter (K&K) has extolled the virtues of the new tube preamp, it's pretty enticing.

Would love to do a head to head comparison of same guitar with K & K pure mini and internal mini-mic mixed through the K & K Blender versus K & K pure mini (stand alone) into their new tube preamp...

Thanks for your input guys.


Dave

Greetings Redavide.... Mostly I do listening rooms, coffeehouses, house concerts and some festivals... like I said mostly solo or duo set-up. Don't do too many loud club/bars anymore.

My playing style is pretty darn simple, banging out first position chords and some pretty simple finger picking...you know, singer-songwirter stuff…But, I’m definitely missing that air and string sound a mic can bring...it's just that little extra piece.

dave

I can't really comment on the Quantum Blender or the Progression Tube pre-amp, but for what it's worth, for solo/duo -- and especially for someone like yourself who really understands guitar-sound subtlties -- you should have a good mic in the mix.

Get the absolute best you can possibly afford --not only for the sound itself but for the confidence and inspiration that the great sound will give you -- priceless . . .

quote:

Get the absolute best you can possibly afford --not only for the sound itself but for the confidence and inspiration that the great sound will give you -- priceless . . .

Seems like great advice. Thanks.

d

Yep. Why have a guitar that sounds as great as our Collings and end up with generic tone that might as well come out of a Takamine (which has its rightful place in high volume band situations, or folks who just can't afford high end gear- sidenote, I've seen a LOT of great players ripping with guitars we'd turn our noses up at. The email from Dieter today said that the combination of just the pure western mini- no mic- is the best sound he's heard out of such a system. I intend to try it when practicality allows. No blending. One cord in, one cord out. simple. I like simple. good thing; that's how I turned out. tom