Hey Guys,

I have two Collings guitars - a new OM and a 2003 CJ. The CJ is Koa/Adi and is an absolutely gorgeous piece of woodworking. Stunning figure on the Koa, excellent bookmatching on both the back and sides. I love the way Collings bookmatches the sides - it is so cool to look down at the shoulders of the guitar and see identical grain patterns running away from the neck joint on either side. This must be done by some great woodworkers.

I have a question. I am trying to some up with a phrase on how to describe the sound of a Koa guitar. The OM I have is IR/Englemann and I think is very well balanced and projects extremely well. The CJ is definitely a different sounding guitar - my first reaction is to describe it as muted and less loud (less projection). This sounds negative however.

Those of you multi-millionaires who own or have owned several Collings guitars at he same time, and own or have owned a Koa guitar how would you decribe the sound or flavor of a Koa guitar, or specifically a koa/adi CJ?

Two more questions:

What is a fair asking price for the Koa/Adi guitar? It is in perfect shape with the exception of a 1/4" ding on the lower bout where I bumped the coffee table edge (worst damn day of my life...). I have a Calton like flight case for it (made by a Scottish guy who shall remain nameless - one of the worst transactions I have ever been through.) I might want to swap out for a D1A or something along those lines. I'd like to have a Collings dread.

Last question - I am travelling back to Boston in a couple of weeks to visit my fambly and attend my little brother's wedding. I would really like to take my new OM with me, but I don't want to but a Calton for it - its just too much money. I have the Calton like case mentioned ablove that is built for air travel, but is molded to fit a CJ. If i got a bunch of foam and filled in around the OM do you think it would be better protection than the TKL case? My guess is yes, but I have not flown with guitars much at all.

Thanks guys - this is a great place. I think we should all get together (every Collings owner) and have one giant jam. How many have ben sold - at this point 14,000 or so right? Maybe more? Lets get the biggest Freight Train jam of alltime going! I can fit 14000 in my house no problem... :0)

Joe

Since your CJ has less projection and a ding to boot, I will take it off your hands for $2500!

I love the look of koa, but I have never liked the tone -- well, in a guitar anyway. Bland and lacking character. It makes a great ukulele, however!

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Guitarhak,

As far as pricing...

If you look at the 2008 price list as a starting point, assuming there are no other options than what you mentioned (no 1 3/4" nut, no sunburst), that guitar new would list for $6600 with a street price of $5940. Most Collings I've seen sold lately are going for 20% to 35% off the current street price dependent on condition and seller desperation. So, I'd say you are looking at a selling price range of $3860 to $4750.

I'm also not particularly fond of koa as a tonewood for guitars and much prefer rosewood, mahogany or maple sides & back for tone.

As for koa, here again is a post from wikipedia:

"Regardless of any figuring, koa seems to have a bass response that is slightly less than that of rosewood and treble response that is slightly less than that of mahogany. The result is a very equally balanced instrument."

there's not that much koa, and, thus, not that many koa guitars. but: if mahogany is at one end of the graph and rosewood is the other end, maple is the midpoint on that line and koa is between mahogany and maple. that's tone. for color and figure, it kills all of them. by a lot. the wikipedia entry is misleading, although on the witness stand I'd have to say slightly less treble than mahogany: yes; and slightly less bass than rosewood: yes. but that's one dimensional, and the sound is not. the logic here seems to be drifting in the direction that balance is somehow a negative thing. Not when I play. tom

If you want to see a Koa guitar that is a real looker, check out the new arrivals at The Music Emporium. OM3Koa Lightburst. That is one mighty fine looking guitar.

As for tone, I've owned one Koa, an OM1Koa German. I found the sound to fall roughly between Mahogany and Rosewood, as others have mentioned. More bass than Mahogany and less than Rosewood. More clarity than Rosewood and less than Mahogany. First few weeks I had it, I loved it. But then I started longing for the Ying and Yang of Mahogany and Rosewood. So out went the Koa, and in came an OM1A later followed by a McAlister OM28 (Panamanian Rosewood). I still have the McAlister, and I'm still a Collings Mah/Adi junkie; just now with a Varnish finish. I guess for me the middle wasn't where it was at. Whatever works for ya.

I recently bought a used mint condition C-10 with a Koa B/S and Sitka top from Cotten music with a good amount of advice and encouragement from the people on this board. For comp purposes it's a 1996 and I paid $3595 for it. I have always been partial to Koa because of the look, and when I first played a Collings Koa at McCabes I was blown away by the sound and the playability of that instrument (which then disappeared from their inventory and I was too ignorant at the time to note the model, though I think it may have been a C-10).

My C-10 is really beautiful and the first Collings I have ever owned, so you know it is miles above anything else I have ever had (Takamines and Yamahas, need I say more? I'm now a snob...), but I tend to agree with someone on this board who said the sound reminds them of a guitar with a stuffy nose (or something like that). It can be a bit muted, but in adjusting my fingerpicking style a bit, what that really does is give me more options with resonance, you know being able to build in a sort of almost chorus-y type sound with the guitar, which I really love. Maybe other Collings have that quality as well. I know I still just love looking at, touching and playing the thing, though the standard scale has been a bit of a challenge for me, I think it's making me a better player!
I'm not a great player by any means and don't jam with anyone, just play at home or accompany my kids on their instruments, so I don't need major sonic capability, but I find the Koa, though more "subdued" in tone, to be quite fine.

I wonder if most people are simply smitten by the look and feel as I was, and love the sound anyway. You know, it's like falling in love at first sight and it sticks even if they turn out not to be a great conversationalist.

I'm very surprised an adi topped CJ is quieter than your OM. I have 3 koa guitars (none are Collings though)and find them to be closer to Mahogany. Hard to hazard a guess as to price as yours is a rare bird.

I'd think a koa/adi dread would be 38 or above, maybe 4. Koa's 1500, adi 1000 just as upgrades. If the sound is muted, maybe Dr. Tom needs to take it to his Sonoma Sanitarium for some tlc and string rehab. I can't image that combination in that model being muted. IT just seems impossible. Maybe your high specific gravity prevents the sound from fully escaping. I almost bought such a guitar about three years back, or maybe four. The only large Collings I have is a CJA, which, pardon my french, is sure as hell not muted. it sounds like you're playing in the Grand Canyon. Interested enough to explore options? I'm fine either way. thanks tom

Grant - I was also surprised, but there is no doubt. Not only is the OM louder,it has significantly more bass response than the CJ, a much larger guitar.

The CJ is an absolutely stunning looking guitar - did I mention it has MOM inlay and the haircut headstock? The only thing missing is any inlay on the headstock. It is gorgeously bound, as is of course the entire neck, but I would have expected an insert like a torch or rose on the headstock. I should have it done. Oter than that it is a jaw dropping piece of woodworking, as i said. I'll take some nice shots and post a couple of pics. I loooove to gloat :-)

I think everyone agrees here that the tone of Koa is somewhat muted. It is not as defined as the IR. I dont have a mahogany guitar to compare it to, but my first reaction is that I have put coated strings on the guitar. It has that very slightly dampened (sp?) effect. I can flat pick and coax tone and character out, but fingerpicking to me sounds somewhat muted. I guess you pay a price for that beauty. I am trying various strings on it to find the most responsive. I'd appreciate any opinions on that - which strings you would specifically recommend for this guitar to coax a little more out of the wood.

Nobody answered my question about using the CJ flight case for the OM? Is it a bad idea? The case itself is much more rugged than the TKL and I can augment the liner foam to protect the guitar. I just plain don't have the $900 that Gryphon wants for Calton case right now.

Thanks again. Tom - we gotta hook up one of these days. Maybe I can swing up there on a weekend day, let my wife wander the downtown, and you and I can rip off a few tunes and toss back a few cold ones... Who else out there is in the Bay Area?

Joe

The only Koa guitars I have played that I like were small bodied (00 or nearby). There I found the voice sweet and balanced. The larger ones just lacked something to my ears - a generality to be sure based on a limited sampling.
Rick