Based on the recently announced Collings CD and from some of the recent discussions. I think its a great idea to initiate a discussion in exploring the possibility of making our own Forum CD.

The CD will probably consist of recordings from Forum members using their Collings Guitars. Someone can probably Master the recording for us. We might also need design people for the art work as well... Theres lots of other issues like printing/production/distribution/licensing/quantity/style of music/how it going to be recorded/logistic/format/mixing etc. etc.

I have zero experience in this area and we probably need a volunteer Project Manager to coordinate this whole project. I am sure it can be a fun project for everyone involved.

Anyone here in the music industry? elambo? Kenny B? Please share with us your thoughts! All ideas are welcome! Lets see if this can become another major accomplishment of the forum.

Ed and all forum members;

I think this is an excellent ideal and I have already volunteered to master any recording we come up with. Maybe we should see who's interested and set some ground rules? Maybe no ground rules? For example, maybe participants should be a forum members and play a Collings guitar.. or maybe that does not matter as much. Let's kick this around and see what we come up with.

I think it's a cool and fun idea. I don't think it should be restricted to Collings guitars only. We tend to have an appreciation for good guitars in general here whether they be Collings or some other make.

One thing that will need to be dealt with is whether or not you'll allow folks to record cover songs and what that entails as far as permission and copyrights. I don't know jack about that stuff so if I contribute it'll have to be something original.

Ed - yes, I am in the music business and I've done many CDs like what you're offering. It's quite a bit of work even if you're doing it all from one location. In this case, the work would be fun, but we should decide if there will be an audience, even among forum members, for such a CD.

I've always liked the idea of hearing tracks from forum members, but it's become so easy to upload MP3s to this site that I'm having trouble understanding the specific benefits of a CD, other than the obvious fact that it would bring 10 or 15 tracks together in a way that's easy to listen to. Maybe that alone merits this project???

You tell me. If the verdict is "go", then I'd like to help however I can.

About the copyrights - I'm a member of ASCAP and I have access to their documents so I'll take a look tonight. If it's not clear, I also have an attorney that handles all of my music issues that I can ask about this, if necessary. My guess is that it will be bad news to include songs that are not original unless we're given permission, which is not likely.

It's slightly vague whether or not we'd be permitted to use songs written by other artists, but it appears to me that we'd be required to pay royalties to the authors in our specific situation. To be absolutely sure, I'd have to ask a few questions.

Copyrights... I don't know about the variance in costs, but for say making 100 copies of a song, it might come out to as low as 7 cents a song for the rights to distribute an arrangement. It is not that expensive. For anyone wanting to do a such a thing, it would be best to check it out... but there are tons of things out there to play that are "Public Domain" and very recognizable. After all, who owns the rights to "Amazing Grace"?

elambo makes some good points about what's the point of a cd? How about instead of a cd we create a special section of the forum that is essentially our cd. The difference between that and our current mp3 section is that the cd section would be 10 to 15 songs that were submitted by forum members and voted on by forum members as being worthy of inclusion in the cd forum. The submissions would be managed by one or two people who would not be allowed to vote. Only those two would know who the artist or each piece is until all the voting is tallied and the cd section is created and then the top vote getting songs would be posted in that section along with the names of the artists who contributed them. We'd have to have a voting section of the forum too where each piece is posted anonymously for forum members to listen and vote. The songs would need to be mastered just as if they were going to cd.

What do y'all think?

[quote]elambo makes some good points about what's the point of a cd?

There isn't really a "point" or purpose other than we do it because we can. I've not heard a lot of guitarist here and would like to hear what they sound like. It would be like, I know the guy, but I don't know what he sounds like on guitar. A CD would be great because the quality is higher than MP3s. However, I would not exclude having mp3 like we do now. And, CDs don't have to cost an arm and leg.. we could self produce it. Maybe include info like recording techniques, mics used, preamps, etc. We could include that as a pdf file on the CD or as a download on the website... or just set up a page that describes each song, why it was written or any story behind it, the technical info, how long have you been playing, etc. etc...


>> forum members and voted on by forum members as being worthy of inclusion in the cd forum. The submissions would be managed by one or two people who would not be allowed to vote.

Maybe we could allow anyone who wants to submit a song be able to get it out there, especially if they wrote it. Let's have all levels of players submit songs, even if only a 2-3 minute song. The average CD holds 80 minutes of music? We could get 15-20 songs out on the CD. I agree we would have to cull thru the submissions and pick the best of the lot... someone would have to do that, but not to the point of exclusion of anyone willing to on the CD.

Another thought... I'm sure everyone would be worried about production costs... I'm pretty sure we could cut some corners here. More on that later.

We have a voting function (seldom use) so voting is not a problem and its actually a very good idea to get everyone involved!

The CD can be just a CDR if its too expensive? (Something like Rockerbob's personal CD) I really think it is a very cool archievement to produce a CD of our own and get to hear different Models of Collings played by our forum members. To make it more interesting, it can probably be a CD with some Video clips as well!!

BTW, I had temporary closed the MP3 page because of the expensive charge from the excessive bandwidth usage there. It will open again once I can search for a good alternative instead of hosting it with the same hosting service of the forum. (which is very expensive)

More info if it will help...Regarding royalties, I just finished recording my CD. Anytime you record any song, in whole or in part, that was written by someone else, you have to pay for the license. The current rate is $.085 per song, per CD. If the song is over 5 minutes, it's a different rate. A lot of people go through the Harry Fox Agency to do this. I believe the law applies whether you intend to sell or even give them away, you have to have the license to record the song. Most CD duplication/replication houses either make you sign a paper saying you have the licenses or they ask you to show proof. The H. Fox website talks more about this if anyone is interested. If the song is not registered there, there are other means including contacting the artist directly to get permission.

I hope this helps. Thanks.

I prefer the idea of organizing the MP3 section, but I hadn't considered the cost of bandwidth that Ed has to pay. That's a valid concern, for sure. Ed, if you're able to find a cheap alternative, would you still want so much traffic?

About a CD - A useful CD for any potential Collings customer would be one that demonstrates all the different models played in a couple various styles. Not every city has a Collings dealership, so a CD would be a great reference tool when getting your hands on an actual guitar is just not possible.

The reason that this DOESN'T exist (I'm assuming) is because it's very difficult to capture the true sound of any acoustic guitar, and when you do it's from the audience's perspective. Plus, it would be expensive to do it right.

BUT, if Collings were ever to agree to offer such a demonstration CD, it might be beneficial to them if we offer the material ourselves, saving them time and money. This could be a great opportunity for us.

What will ultimately prevent this from coming to light is the fact that all of our recordings will vary greatly in sonic character. Even if we had Bernie Grundman master our CD, it will be impossible to be consistant because of the range of recording gear and technics that will be involved. To be useful, each guitar would have to be played by the same artist, with the same equipment, playing the same song. Even then it's not necessarily going to sound like the guitar as it does when you play it yourself.

I'd love to see a Collings Forum CD and just working on it would be fun, but when I think more and more about the logistics and its usefulness, I shy away from the idea.

Probably a CDR would make the most sense from a financial point of view. I doubt we will need very many. I have gone throught the full commercial CD process as well, and it's not too difficult if you have the right tools, but you really need to press 500 or more if you want "real" CDs. I suspect we will need less than 50.

I would be happy to participate. I can contribute music as well as help with mastering and graphics.