Tom: I read your post too quickly and saw "contempt" instead of "content". Makes sense both ways. And, Sire Hak, it is not my purpose here to conduct an English As A First Language class, salting my posts with obscure words. It's just the way I talk-and write. Obscurity is my middle name. Here, as in high school, I have a hard time lining up nose to tail with the next sheep. Let's each be him or herself, subject only to the constraints of reasonable community standards. Now, for a walk in the morning air past the community garden to witness some thigmatropism in action. Very sensual. Sorry. Family forum. "Old McDonald had a forum...." arrrgghhhh. tom

quote:

Originally posted by hawgadi:The welcome this guy has gotten is ridiculous. IMO.

You're referring to Mikey here. Let me quote the questionable part of his first quote:

"When moderators appoint themselves judge jury and executioner the power has gone to their head and they are nothing more than annoying insects who should be terminated"

This is in direct reference to me, and he clarified so in a later post. And hawgadi, do you not see any reason to be offended by this post? Have I offended YOU historically, because as far as I'm concerned you're trying very hard to share Mikey's opinion, not merely support his right to free speech. You're entitled to your opinion, but I'd like to know what has pissed you off so much. I've offered to listen privately to anyone who has a beef with the 24-hour sale, or me in general - no one has taken me up on that. I've asked you twice - no response.

quote:

Originally posted by redavide:
mikey wrote:

quote:

Power is a strange thing. The abuse of power is common. When moderators appoint themselves judge jury and executioner the power has gone to their head and they are nothing more than annoying insects who should be terminated

I interpreted mikey's original post as simply supporting buster's original theme -- that moderators are unnecessary. This is a valid position, isn't it? Some people would prefer a completely free forum to say whatever they please without any moderation.

Personally, I see two separate issues here: 1) Are moderators, in general, necessary? 2) If they are necessary, where are they supposed to draw the line and for what reasons? If these issues could be discussed calmly and rationally, I think it would be fairly interesting.

It's your last sentence that disproves your first. An entrance like Mikey has made isn't calm and rational, it's merely provoking a fight and each subsequent post has been fuel for the same. He is allowed to have that opinion, of course, but his choice of words is entirely unwarranted.

quote:

Originally posted by Papi:
The problem is the lack of respect. I mean how is it that your going to start a thread with,
"We don't need no stinkin' moderators!" I take offense to that. How about, starting the thread with, "Can someone please explain why we need a moderator!"

I agree. This topic is valid, but the content is not. But I didn't really have much issue with the original post (the "badges" comment which opened this thread was sort of a joke I thought, even if it stung a little, but it's a comic reference to Treasures of the Sierra Madre, made famous by Blazing Saddles. I've seen both - I got the joke - and I think a lot of others did, too. Only buster knows if the joke was meant as truth).

Had the thread started as you'd suggested, it would be entirely appropriate. I'm keeping it open because I realize full well that I'm being baited, but I'm not taking a full bite just yet.

We're living in the Irony Age. Freedom and license are not interchangeable terms. The thrust of this thread more resembles the Bean Scene from Blazing Saddles than it does anything from Treasure of Sierra Madre. In my opinion, the exception proves the rule, and a judicious moderator, of which Elambo is a prime example, is in our collective interest.

Elambo wrote:

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by redavide:
mikey wrote:
quote:
Power is a strange thing. The abuse of power is common. When moderators appoint themselves judge jury and executioner the power has gone to their head and they are nothing more than annoying insects who should be terminated


I interpreted mikey's original post as simply supporting buster's original theme -- that moderators are unnecessary. This is a valid position, isn't it? Some people would prefer a completely free forum to say whatever they please without any moderation.

Personally, I see two separate issues here: 1) Are moderators, in general, necessary? 2) If they are necessary, where are they supposed to draw the line and for what reasons? If these issues could be discussed calmly and rationally, I think it would be fairly interesting.


It's your last sentence that disproves your first. An entrance like Mikey has made isn't calm and rational, it's merely provoking a fight and each subsequent post has been fuel for the same. He is allowed to have that opinion, of course, but his choice of words is entirely unwarranted

I agree that buster and mikey used unnecessarily provocative language. ("stinkin", "terminate", "insects"). But everyone has varying degrees of eloquence and sometimes you've got to try to get the essence of the meaning of the message rather then focusing on the bad choice of words. I didn't think they were attacking you personally Elambo, I think they just feel a bit aggressive toward any moderator, and you just happen to be one.

Words mean something. A person with sufficient vocabulary to come up with insect and terminate could certainly use a less inflammatory phrasing, unless the intent was precisely that: to inflame. There are many on-line forums sans moderator. Feel free to go to them, or not. Feel free stay here, or not. But it's not Elabmo's problem, his instigation, or his attitude that set this course.

Sonoman, I guess you're right -- they successfully set the fires, others threw on some dried grass, and Elambo arrived with the hose . . .

As I've said before, I wasn't comfortable leaving the 24-hour thread "finished" if I had in fact offended someone, as a few have suggested. I'd like the opportunity to set things straight, if necessary. I haven't received any emails or PMs willing to elaborate, but I've asked. So I tried to do a little of my own research - rereading posts and answering PMs - and I've learned that there are very specific reasons that some people would have such disdain for the way that thread was handled and for my past editing of that and other threads. In some cases, there are multiple login names attached to the same person. Good cop, bad cop. Jekyll, Hyde. That sort of thing. Based upon my homework, and the fact that no one's willing to elaborate on their frustrations about the 24-hour sale, I'm entirely certain that this thread has become a platform for venting. Starting fires and hoping for "dried grass," as redavide has said.

The Seller has informed me that he's entirely happy with the outcome of the thread and that he appreciated the assistance. On the other side, I've opened the door for the Buyer to discuss his case with me privately, and I've even asked those who had been suggested as possible Buyers to set the record straight. No one has said anything to me.

Here's a quote for the Terms of Service agreement we all signed when we joined:

"We also reserve the right to reveal your identity (or whatever information we know about you) in the event of a complaint or legal action arising from any message posted by you."

I've have received MANY complaints regarding a few issues which surround the 24-hour thread, and I've learned a lot, but I have not disclosed any information.

Here's something else interesting from the TOS agreement:

"We reserve the right to delete any message for any or no reason whatsoever. You remain solely responsible for the content of your messages."

That gives the Admin and Mods the right to edit as they feel fit. No explanation necessary. It is, in fact, their job to keep order and maintain the atmosphere of the forum, so that right will sometimes be necessary. Personally, I've tried very hard to withhold any kind of editing or deleting, and when I do I try equally hard to explain why. Other times have been obvious enough to require no explanation.

With this thread now entirely useless, I'm bringing the hose and extinguishing the madness. If anyone would like to discuss ANYTHING - relevant to this thread, others, or something else - feel free to send me a PM. And thanks to all those who tried so hard to support the presence of Mods, even when it only brought more fire to yourself. This thread and the type of unwanted behavior that's splattered upon parts of it are really a problem for me and the other Mods and Ed. And so, unfortunately, the rules of behavior which have been ignored for a long time (primarily because they weren't necessary) are going to come back into play and be reinforced, and explanations from the Admin and Mods will most often NOT accompany any housekeeping. I know that this will be exactly what some people have wished for - to stir things up around here - and now that they have, that type of behavior will be the first to get the boot.