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quote: Originally posted by Phild28:
If you use the TR when the humidity is high it may accelerate the uptake of moisture and thus make the guitar sound "tubby", similar to dead string, in some cases it can also kill the strings.
have also noticed the guitar is best after it has settled for a day or 2 after TR.
Phil
now i am getting nervous - I dont really want my SJ sounding tubbier... i think I'll put the a/c on in the room.. |
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| Posts: 199 | Location: Norwalk, CT | Registered: June 30, 2005 | 
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someone a whole lot smarter than I am (shouldn't be hard to find) should explain why a softly vibrating guitar would absorb moisture more rapidly than an inert guitar. It does not make sense. from those long ago science classes, I recall ST_- standard temperature and pressure. So, wood might hydrate more quickly at sea level than at 2,000 feet, or at 90 degrees rather than 70 degrees. How vibration effects any of that escapes me entirely. High humidity is the enemy of any guitar, and those in tropic climes might do well to have humidity control devices in their guitar room(s). In short: bunk. tom
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Or maybe PVT - Pressure/Volume/Temperature. As the top heats up, it may absorb more moisture, but as volume rises there would be less need for additional moisture. Personally, I doubt it attract more moisture at these levels, but who knows.
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The absorption of moisture was based on my own and another forum members experiences of using the TR in high humidity. We both had a similar problem and compared notes. The tubbiness went away when the TR was used in humidity below 50% for a couple of days. We both felt that what may have been happening was the pours of the wood (unfinished surface) was opening an closing due to the vibration setting up a pumping action and drawing moisture into the wood. Rick is probably also correct that the moisture in the wood could be getting driven to the outside of the guitar, this however would leave the dryer sections more susceptible to absorbing moisture from the highly humid environment i.e high humidity differential would increase absorption rate. I know a little bit about this, i'm no expert, but I was a consultant Hydraulics engineer for quite a few years and taught Fluid dynamics at college. Could be miles off it was just an observation by two of us and we came up with something that sounded plausable - maybe not who knows. Anyway, should it happen the top will still be de-damped which is the reason for doing it and as soon as the moisture content falls the guitar will be better than before - no problems. Phil
D1,D-1A, C10 DB, OM-1A,1953 D18
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quote: Originally posted by Phild28:
The absorption of moisture was based on my own and another forum members experiences of using the TR in high humidity. We both had a similar problem and compared notes. The tubbiness went away when the TR was used in humidity below 50% for a couple of days. We both felt that what may have been happening was the pours of the wood (unfinished surface) was opening an closing due to the vibration setting up a pumping action and drawing moisture into the wood. Rick is probably also correct that the moisture in the wood could be getting driven to the outside of the guitar, this however would leave the dryer sections more susceptible to absorbing moisture from the highly humid environment i.e high humidity differential would increase absorption rate.
I know a little bit about this, i'm no expert, but I was a consultant Hydraulics engineer for quite a few years and taught Fluid dynamics at college.
Could be miles off it was just an observation by two of us and we came up with something that sounded plausable - maybe not who knows. Anyway, should it happen the top will still be de-damped which is the reason for doing it and as soon as the moisture content falls the guitar will be better than before - no problems.
Phil
Well yeah, high enough water vapor content in the air and the guitar is going to absorb enough of it to sound tubby, TR use or not. However the TR is going to drive some moisture out of the guitar simple due to vibration causing a rise in temperature - kiln dried wood on a mini scale.
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| Posts: 1407 | Location: San Luis Obispo, CA | Registered: August 25, 2004 |
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quote: Originally posted by rick-slo:
Just the opposite. The top dehydates with the vibration which IMO is a lot behind why this device has the effect on sound it does.
My words may have been clumsy. I meant after the treatment - certainly no one's playing it during - and it should equalize rather quickly even if the humidity does change. In any case, we're talking about microscopic levels, nowhere near approaching a truly dry guitar, something Chicago winters have made me quite familiar with. My HD-28V, for instance, has never sounded anywhere near this good in the winter. And after several days it still sounds the same. |
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Rick said "Well yeah, high enough water vapor content in the air and the guitar is going to absorb enough of it to sound tubby, TR use or not. However the TR is going to drive some moisture out of the guitar simple due to vibration causing a rise in temperature - kiln dried wood on a mini scale.[/QUOTE] Rick, the point I was making was that I (and another forum member) had observed that during TR treatment it seemed to accelerate the process of the guitar top taking up humidity, which firstly you disagreed with saying the reverse was true and now you seem to be agreeing, i'm not sure I understand your reasoning. Anyway I have no desire to argue about it or debate the issue, it was an observation. I doubt whether you could measure any temperature rise on the body of the guitar and I doubt whether it would be adequate to cause any noticeable evaporation. I only posted to make Andrew aware of something I had experienced that just may have explained an apparently unsuccessful use of the TR - just trying to help.
D1,D-1A, C10 DB, OM-1A,1953 D18
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Phil, said the same thing both times. You misread my posts. Elambo, who says it's microscopic? Got any data on that? It well could be significant. Even after a 72 hour TR marathon I agree the guitar would return to normal humidity wise in a few days but by then the impression has been made.
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| Posts: 1407 | Location: San Luis Obispo, CA | Registered: August 25, 2004 |
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Here's the solution to all of this theory, all 55 pages of it: Select your guitars so they aren't tight from the git go and you can avoid all this and just play, and enjoy  It's easy, really. Now if your buying tight guitars, then you've got an issue.
Tom
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| Posts: 2234 | Location: CA, USA | Registered: November 20, 2006 |
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