there's an interesting article in the current issue of mandolin magazine(spring). the featured artist (kym warner) likes the "rounder" sound of the engelmann (vs adirondack) tops, so he had a MT-2V done with engelmann. he claims others (e.g. chris thile) have done the same (though maybe not with collings). i noticed an MF-5 for sale (acoustic music works, i believe) with the same option.

has anyone else tried this?

True...I'm currently buying #147 Nugget 2 point with an Engleman top and will have another Collings varnish with and Engleman top in the relatively near future.

If you want to kill a couple banjos, the adirondack is hard to beat...the warmth of the Engleman is incredible for tone. Several of the MT's, if not all, were made with Engleman...

Several mando players who play other styles than bluegrass seem to love the Engleman...Rumor has it that Joe Mc has his adirondack deluxe varnish on consignment with Steve and has on order a varnish with an Engleman top....he's heard them both, maybe he'll chime in....Alex was impressed with the Engleman topped varnish too....

Speaking of some new mando additions, Kevin will end up with a few very nice guitars...a couple brazilian Collings and 2 or 3 '66 Martin dreads....I just have to get some time to box them up and send them....

Kia Manuia,

Dale

Engelmann gives a smoother sound but IMO nothing beats sitka for all around sound. Why not just go with sitka for the top on your next mandolin?

btw: I sold my Collings MT2 because the neck width felt too small at the nut, I prefer the 1 3/16". That is another upgrade that is worth the extra money.

Just wanted to report that I'm weeks away from an engleman topped MT2V in the house, If someone cuts me a clue as to how to post pics here, I surely will do so. I've seen some pics of it post-buffing and pre-set up and it's something to behold. I'm aware of the consensus on Adi tops, but I've had two outstanding MF5Vs--one a Deluxe and I like the humble black-topped MT in Quincy's better than either of those great F5s. Having listened to Kym's and played Pat's very cool MT, which I still can't believe sits in his shop 9 months after it arrived, I'm convinced I made the right choice for me. Had I not had a middle-age MAS attack, I'd have bought it right away, but I figured, much as I would love it, I'd always be dreaming about another varnish, which, at the time I could afford. Still, a bump for the blackface MT at Quincy's. There isn't a soul who's played it who didn't think it was extraordinary.

Bruce

This message has been edited. Last edited by: ledmandlin,

Some Collings guitars have German spruce tops. Wonder if they've ever tried it on mandolins. I own a Passernig (former Collings employee) F5 with German Spruce and really love it.

OK, bear with me here. I'm diving into the deep water, and I don't swim all that well.

One of the reasons that spruce makes such great sound board material is its unique characteristic of high longitudinal (parallel to the grain) stiffness compared to it's low density. Other material can be used with great results, but I'd say the vote is in on spruce as the preferred material.

Within the category of spruce, three or four varieties are most often used for instruments: Red (Adirondack), Sitka, Engelmann, and European. One way of comparing these varieties is to look at the ratio between the stiffness and density.

Specific gravity ( a measure of density) compares any substance to the same volume of water and it's stated as:

X 10 (to the 6th power).

Dropping the scientific notation fo all below, the specific gravity of each variety is:

Adirondack: 0.4
Sitka: 0.4
Engelmann: 0.35
European: 0.43

The ratio for Stiffness to Density is:

Adirondack: 4.03
Sitka: 3.93
Engelmann: 3.71
European: 2.84

Now if anyone is still awake or even bothered to read this far, Adirondack has the highest stiffness to density. Practically speaking, it can be carved thinner while still maintaining stiffness.

Well, it ain't that easy. According to the the LMI Handbook, "considering there are (12) constants which dscribe the elasticity of wood (stiffness), (9) of them variable between and even within species, to rely only on the numbers can easily intoduce more confusion."

I have a Lawrence Smart F-5 with an Engelmann top. Lawrence felled this tree himself and has been making mandolins from it for a number of years. When we discussed the tone I was looking for, which is a process Lawrence enjoys, I felt it better to leave the wood selection in his hands. I wanted bark and sublety. I wanted that strong mid range without sacrificing the bottom end. So he picked a particularly stiffer billet from the Engelmann, and I think he hit the bullseye.

Generalization is fine as long as it doesn't venture into absolutes. I think the species of top wood is far less important than how it was applied. Knowing when to go thinner or thicker has a huge impact on the end result, and a great piece of tone wood won't guarantee a great instrument if it's not properly used.

A lot of character comes from the wood, but also important is the sealing and finish method. Of course carving the top, graduating, shape/size matter very much also. The width of the sides control volume to some extent, sound hole design helps determine the balance of bass, treble, resonance, and again volume.
I'll throw out some thoughts here...
A soft top wood such as cedar or redwood could be carved thicker and treated with a light and stiff sealer like lacquer, raising the pitch of the tap tone.
Another material such as Engelmann or yellow cedar could be carved a bit thinner, oil varnished and then finished with lacquer to stiffen.
Adirondack, Sitka, can be shaped thinner, treated with a dampener first like wax, sealed with hide or fish glue, oil varnished, metal dyed, allowed an extended curing time, then either left that way, or final coat shellac finished.
E. European and Adirondack are similar I think.
Powerful bass, ringing high tones. Tight grain=more balance, wider spaced grain=more bass.
Italian spruce sounds best to me. Lot's of violinists agree. I agree that it's inaccurate to generalize, but tradition says;
Cedar= small guitar, best for nylon, but other spruce woods offer more volume, especially playing single notes.
Engelmann= violin, cello, archtop guitar. Not a flatpicker's choice.
Sitka= flat top axes, steel string. Volume while chord playing, a singer style guitar. Rock and Roll, blues.
Adirondack- bright high notes, fat bass, single notes are loud. Mandolin, guitar. They can hear your lead breaks now.
Italian spruce in my mind sounds incredible even on a young instrument. It's just the best of all these qualities.

Well, just an amateur builder's opinion. (Mine) Any thoughts about different finishing methods according to the wood types would be welcome.

all the best!
David Blair