guitars. Collings hold price not too bad as we know. I see some great deals on used Santa Cruz guitars. How are they considered as a builder, say, relative to Collings . - Playability, sound, quality.

I know they can be very pricy new. Do they simply drop in price allot once used.

Any issues I should know of. Might be getting closer to buying a less expensive guitar. One of two in this years budget. Could spend between $1500 and $2500 (approx) but going low allows me to go higher for the non-beater.

Stuart

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Stuart,

Stuart,

Some folks here have noted build quality issues; maybe they'll speak up. My experience with SC's are somewhat limited, but the ones I have encountered have been terrific guitars. A friend in Maine has a IR-Sitka dread that he bought in 1989 (along in there) and it's the guitar that made me think of upgrading from a Martin HD-28. His guitar is as rich and beautiful sounding as any you'll hear; not quite the bite, or edge, of a Collings dread, but world class most def. It's a Tony Rice model, and emphasizes the lows a little much for my taste, leaving trebles sounding just a bit thin in comparison, but it's a classic bluegrass box. He has had no build issues.

When I was shopping to replace my Martin, I played a number of SC's, and they all sounded great to me. The standard D Model dread is a balanced guitar, but I found the cosmetics not quite to my taste. I opted against the Pre-war D because, at the time, the appointments were a little too bland. But the D/PWs I played were awesome instruments, balanced, loud, rich-sounding and like silk to play. They were, in my opinion in 2002 anyway, the best bargain for the money among high-end dreads. While I prefer the Collings sound, in my estimation, SC's are right there in the same class. YMMV. Cheers!

B

This message has been edited. Last edited by: B Woods,

All I can say is they are light weight and pretty. Never found one I could warm up to
completely enough to buy.

My suggestion is don't focus on which is the "great deal", i.e. lowest from list price. Instead focus on which sounds best to you. Saving money is great, but in the long run, what is going to be important to you is how that guitar sounds and plays. And with a Collings or a Santa Cruz, your presumably talking about a guitar that you'll want to have for a long time, so while a difference in price may look big now, it really isn't when you look at it over the life of the guitar.

I think it was Stanley Marcus that something to the effect of "The cost of high quality only stings once - but the sting of low quality lasts forever"

Not that I would ever accuse SCGC of low quality. One of the finest quitars I ever played was a 000 Santa Cruz in Austin. But I think Collings make an exceptionally fine guitar - and I get to spend my money locally.

thanks for replys guys. I'm coming to the conclusion that I have difficulty compromising. Pay $2K for a beaten up good guitar or 3K for a mint. Wanted to buy another high end as well. It gets expensive. Will save I think and travel when I can.

Spring or summer. I guess I need the practice anyway.

Stuart

Of the Santa Cruz's I've played- and that's between twenty and thirty, I'd say- my most usual response is "wow, that's light" or "gee, that's pretty" not "now, that sounds amazing". There was one Tony Rice brazilian, out of about eight that Steve Swan had in stock at the time, that was truly remarkable. The rest were, in the context of the guitars we discuss here, ordinary. That's no sin, but if you aim high, that's where you need to hit.

I'd like to put in a plug here for Santa Cruz. I've got a 12-fret Dread that is an absolutely wonderful guitar - beautiful tone, wonderful playability and fine workmanship. I'd have no trouble at all buying another one. In fact, I may - kind of need a Tony Rice model - would sure like to play one back-to-back with the Collings CW/Winfield. Plus, my wife and I visited the Santa Cruz factory and found Richard Hoover, the luthier there, to be wonderfully welcoming. Got our own private tour.

The thing is, as you all know, every guitar is different. To say that they're all variable doesn't even begin to express the problem. At the time I bought mine, another one just like it in the same shop (MCabe's, in Santa Monica) didn't sound nearly as good. But others I've played since then have sounded as good. The guys down at Buffalo Brothers whined to me about workmanship issues with Santa Cruz when I was down there a few years back - I never know how to take it when someone in retail knocks a product he doesn't carry. But I figured that it's possible that there were other issues, business issues perhaps, that could have been driving that negativity. I've looked at a bunch of 'Cruzes, and have seen nothing but exemplary workmanship.

On the issue of used instruments, I'm in favor of buying used, generally. I've bought three banjos used from Elderly Instruments and have done very well. My 'Cruz was used as well - I paid something like $1900 for a guitar that listed new for $3400. For sure you don't get the guarentee, and if you're going too keep it for life, that's important - priced a neck reset recently? But in addition to the great price, my 'Cruz came to me pre-dinged, so (or at least this is what I told myself) I didn't need to worry about getting that dreaded first ding in it.

Peace - Jon

I"ve heard many good things about Mr. Hoover, and I've no doubt there are many splendid SC guitars out there. JonT, my grandfather lived in Glendale when he was chief public defender for LA county. He rode the Red Line down Brand all to the way to the civic center. He lived on Louise, and we used to hike up Mt. Verdugo when there was nothing, literally nothing, on the hill side of Mountain. Long ago.

Used to own a pre-war version of their dread. Very plain appointments, but an awesome sounding guitar. In my opinion, has more of a Martin dread tone than a Collings. Not as bell-like as a Collings, but great for rhythm strumming and more low-end emphasis. I paid $1,500 for a used one and am only sorry I sold it. IMHO, one of the best overall values for a quality guitar.

Another plug for Santa Cruz. I have a OM/PW that is awesome. The guitar is solid, but lighter than a Martin. I think it weighs about the same as a Collings OM I played this week. But, the customer service you get with SC is amazing. When I bought my guitar I called their facility in California and talked to someone who not only played guitar, but had actually worked in the shop. They were very helpful. It's a very responsible company, in my opinion. I have seen presentations by Richard Hoover on video and hope to see him in person some day.
These are different guitars than the Collings, but I think it is cool when a builder has a vision and carries it out with success. Both Collings and Hoover are winners in my book.
--Fred

Fred, I was wondering where this was going until I got to the end of your post. Richard, specifically, and Santa Cruz generally, are indeed great, but I think Bill's commitment to quality is unsurpassed. I can't think of any builder currently on the scene who consistently produces more great guitars. I've lost count of the number of posts that comment on the consistency aspect of Collings. And as for customer support, the folks at Collings have been very generous with their time in answering all the questions I've directed their way (can't say I ever had to deal with Collings on a "problem", since there have't been any with the various Collings I've bought). I do agree with you that both Bill and Richard are winners, and produce great guitars which are different. I like both sounds; that's why I bought OMs from each. It's a "best of both worlds" thang