Jump another 10 years to 2002 -- "Blue Country Heart" w/ Jorma Kaukonen, Sam Bush, Jerry Douglas, Byron House and Bela Fleck. I was listening to it this morning -- great record.

quote:

The vintage Gibson sound. To me, I’d describe it as a big, dry, thumpy and "hollow-ish" tone with an unmistakable sweetness and warmth...

That is a great description of the Gibson sound, but in all my years i have only played one that had that sound. The rest were just dry, thumpy and hollow-ish.
If i could find something similar with half the dry, thumpiness and plenty of sweet tone and warmth. That would be my holy grail. I am guessing that Collings will be able to deliver that sound to me through a custom ordered CJ, by helping me in the wood combination process and tweaking the top bracing.
The greatest records 1965 to 1979

Papi- It will be a great guitar, but it won't sound like a Gibson. The great ones(Gibson) are out there, but it takes some effort & patience to find one.

Tom F.,
I'm sure we could all go on listing "newer stuff" and I was about to. But suffice it to say, Lipstick Sunset from John Hiatt's 1987 album offers what I think is the best non-blues slide solo ever recorded. That album, Bring The Family, was billed as a Hiatt album but it is the Little Village lineup, with Ry on slide, of course. It also included Thing Called Love and Have a Little Faith In Me. Geez. Thanks for reminding me and watch this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIj8fgJgahg - Oh, and check out Nick's thumbpick on the Fender Bass!
As much as I loved a great deal of the music from the 60s and 70s, I don't want to go "Big Chill" and ignore the fabulous new music that is out there today.

Randy, yes indeed, "Bring the Family" is in my collection (got the Mobile Fidelity CD; I've got the Little Village recording on both original album and CD). And yes, "Bring the Family" essentially qualifies as a Little Village recording. But how could you not list the song "Memphis in the Meantime" One of my all time favorites. BTW, let's make sure Little Feat (RIP Lowell) is on the list.

there is certainly great music being made today, much of it sealed off from the Clear Channel universe of homogenized "hits". Tieing this to the vintage thing, I really like Madeline Peyroux's work- she comps like crazy and sounds devine, like the love child of Billie Holiday or Peggie Lee (a friend of our family, btw, from my mom's big band career days 60 years ago). Ms. Peyroux plays what I think is a 000-18 from the forties with a Sunrise, or something that looks like a Sunrise, in it, and it sounds great. As always, the player is at least 90 percent of what you get. it's that last little bit that drives us all to distraction. But ain't it fun? I'm gonna go play our youngest grandchild to sleep about an hour from now. He loves backbeat. Play C'Est La Vie or Key to the Highway and he's a happy boy. Me too. tom

Memphis in the Meantime with the behind-the-bridge rhythm part.
Funny you should mention Little Feat. I've been listening to a "best of" CD I burned for the car from my iTunes collection. Then this morning on the way to work WXPN, out of Philly, played Iko Iko by Dr. John and you'd swear it's Little Feat backing him up. Actually, it's Dr. John being influenced by Wild Tchoupatoulas with Big Chief and The Neville Bros backing them up who influenced Little Feat. Willin' is my number one favorite song to sing and play.

I didn't mean to suggest that there isn't any good music after 1974 as has been testified to here with John Hiatt etc...I'm a "Bring The Family" fan too along with "Stolen Moments".But,to me ,there was something happening here what it was ain't exactly clear. There was a change in songwriting,recording,artwork,live acts,musical instruments,etc. around 1974,75,76.

Take Rod Stewart for instance,his early 70's trio of albums Gasoline Alley,Every Picture Tells A Story,Never A Dull Moment coinciding with his Faces LP's Long Player and A Nod Is As Good As A Wink is some of the best music ever put to 33 1/3. He transistioned with Smiler and Faces Ooh,La,La....sort of like the earlier stuff but starting to show signs of petering out largely due to alchohol consumption too much money and ego and more importantly the loss of Ronnie Lane from The Faces/Stewart camp.Mark the difference in sound and attitude once Rod left for the US and recorded Atlantic Crossing,A Night On The Town,etc.. Obviously a new studio,new equipment,new players/studio team,new attitude,new album graphics,many reasons but an obvious change. Same thing with The Rolling Stones post Exile On Main St.. Goats Head Soup and It's Only RnR were sorta like Stones Light and the LP covers were more slick as well as the music. Even Gordon Lightfoot after Sundown seemed to change a bit not as much... a little bit smoother transition with Cold On The Shoulder being his last great LP IMHO. Clapton with 461 OB to One In Every Crowd to Slowhand to oblivion. Dylan....big difference between Blood and the next LP's Desire still pretty good but then? All within that 74-76 period pretty much and the list could go on. Then you have Punk/Disco coming on the scene and RIP RnR.AC/DC,TP,etc.came along but still, the Golden Era was pretty much done.

In the next 20 years about the only music that really moved me was Richard Thompson's....Norman/Nancy Blake,early Pierre Bensusan and some of Mark Knopflers stuff. Not until I heard Gillian Welch's first CD did I really start listening again.Not that there wasn't some good stuff here and there but not up to the magic of the stuff from the 50's-early 70's.

Nowadays you have to be a real music miner and go dig up the nuggetts and network with fellow miners on forums like this to find out about all the great music that's underground....and that ain't a bad thing.

Whenever things seem out of place for me,life in general is making me crazy....there are a few pieces of music that calm,inspire and get me straight again because they are bedrock classics and I've seen my 2 sons embrace this stuff even though they are 15 years apart in age.

The Band..Brown and Big Pink,Rock Of Ages

Van Morrison...Moondance,Tupelo Honey,St. Dominics Preview

...OK,stop the presses. The opening song on St. Dominics is Jackie Wilson Said. I play a cassette tape of this in my van when I'm transporting high school band students from place to place and they LOVE this song. They'll get in the van and ask....where's that Van Morrison song...play that Van song. So where is the energy and pure musical joy of a song like that today? BTW,the band kids really like Van Morrison and I don't know if it's the great orchestration,horn parts etc. or the swing or vocals,songs or all that combined but it makes me all warm and fuzzy to think those young kids like an old fart/music mystic like Van. There is hope for the future.

The Allman Bros.Band...everything up to the end of the Duane/Berry era...Bros/Sistas

Layla

Exile On Main St.

Blonde On Blonde

Everybody Knows This Is Nowhere...along with the recently released Crazy Horse Live At The Fillmore 1970

just to name a few.

Music may be more perfect today with higher recording standards and musicianship but where's the fire and passion that these recordings display? Rave On it's a crazy feelin

This message has been edited. Last edited by: cowboycamper,

Got a little off topic here. I did want to pick up on the thumpy Gibson comment, I own a '48 J-45 and a '46 J-45. Although I'm crazy I still use the '48 as my festival guitar. I promise you that guitar is not hollow sounding.

I will probably bring it to Grey Fox festival (unless I decide to bring my old Gallagher Doc which was my festival guitar before I got the J-45) in July if any of y'all are attending. I love the Gibsons in this setting for several reasons. First they are killer rhythm instruments. More of a snap to them. As far as tone goes, these festivals are still dominated by Martin's, to my ear, (and I love my old Martins too) the newer Martins are kind of a dime a dozen. I own a very clean 1999 GE d-18 that Dan Lashbrook hotrodded, consider it up for sale. Any takers can call me on my cell 216-402-3628. They all get lost in the mix when the banjo's and mandolins come out, The Gibson seems to occupy a differnt sonic space and always cuts right through the mix.

I've noticed the J-45 cuts through a jam a lot better than my D1a too. A mandoln picking buddy of mine was in a jam with me when I first got the D1a, I had that guitar and my J-45 that night, I started out playing the D1a, when I switched to the Gibson my buddy commented, I was wondering where you were all night, I couldnt hear you when you were playing the Collings. Now granted it was brand new that night, and while D1a's are loud, I'm not convinced at least that this one has enough complexity of tone to be noticed in a jam. It's very bright, especially back then and seems to occupy the sonic range of the mandolins and banjo's so it gets a little lost in the mix in a bluegrass jam.

My favorite picker at the Grey Fox festival is Matt Carlen who has studied with both Russ Barrenburg and John Mcgann...hell of a great picker. He has a very nice Colling D2H, which was by far his favorite guitar on the planet...until he played my J-45. Now Matt didn't say he liked my J-45 better he only said he liked it as much as his Collings. So I guess if you find the right vintage instrument it's hard to compete with it. I like my '46 even better but it is a lot cleaner so even I'm not crazy enough to use that one as a festival guitar anymore.

I've had the same experience with my Doc as well, that guitar cuts through the mix great , but it's had 30 years to break in so maybe it's unfair to compare the D1a to it. I'm halfway tempted to sell the D1a too but as I said earlier I'm kind of keeping it around as a science experiment to see how it matures over time. It's the last new guitar I will ever own cause I'm getting too old to wait for them to break in.

camper,
Excellent evaluation. One of the benchmarks of the Century for me was pre- and post-Woodstock. In August 1969 "the suits" perked up and saw dollar signs when they looked at the multitudes who were willing to trudge to that farm and sit in mud to watch the music. Before '69 I could buy $5 tickets to the Asbury Park Convention Center to see The Stones, The Beach Boys (go ahead and laugh), The Temptations, etc, with no trouble, no lines. Same with early shows at the Fillmore East, Cafe Au Go Go and the Bitter End. My brother and I would head to the Fillmore without knowing who was playing, walk up to the ticket booth an hour before show time and buy a ticket. Once Ticketron came on board at Macy's and all the rest it was over. By the same token, artists didn't seem like money was the main thing (even if it was).
To your point about kids wanting to hear a Van song they heard you play - when my daughter was 10 or 12 (fifteen years ago) she came home and excitedly asked who did the song that goes "I'm au chug uh"? After a few minutes my wife and I were LOL. She was trying to convey "I'm All Shook Up". She was jazzed and thought it was one of the best songs she'd ever heard. Another unsolicited Rock & Roll casualty and it made my day. Needless to say, we blasted that one a few times on the stereo while she and my wife danced around the Living Room. Hey, if it has the magic, it has staying power.

I think that there are three types of guitar builders today:

The first are those who are out to build EXACT replicas of either the pre-war Martins (usually pre 1938), pre war Gibsons, Larson Bros. Guitars, Stella Guitars, etc. Blazer & Henkes would be one example that sets out to build guitars that are exact replicas of the pre-war guitar (they make pre-war Martin, Gibson, Larson Bros, and even a few Selmer style guitars). They do use European Spruce for the tops of most, which would be the one difference, but they also use Adirondack spruce upon request. These builders will even assemble the guitars in the same manor that the pre-wars were made, and will not use CNC machines at all in most cases (braces will be glued on with full thickness and will be scalloped and shaped while glued on to the spruce top)

Then there are the builders who build in the Pre-war style while also adding there own refinements. They will use certain pre-war building techniques (Forward X-bracing, scalloped braces, adirondack spruce, guitars built in the same basic shape as certain pre-war models, such as the OM shape, Dread, L-00 Gibson body shape, the J45 or slope shouldered Dread shape) But these builders aren't out to build exact replicas. They often don't use hide glue (though some do), they will use adjustable truss rods and sometimes other neck reinforcements, and the dimensions of the bodies although similar in shape will differ (different back and top arch, slightly differing brace layout), and they will often use CNC machines to rough cut the wood to start out. Examples of these builders differ in the degrees to which they stay true to the originals. Merril would be one such maker who stays close to the design of the originals while adding adjustable truss rods and non-hide glue (don't know about his bracing layouts). Collings does use many techniques used in pre-war guitars, though there are many differences which make a Collings sound like a Collings and not neccessarily a pre-war Martin or Gibson.

Third would be the builders that don't really use any of the pre-war building techniques or body styles. They will use bracing paterns that don't even resemble and X brace, or they will use double tops or double backs with the honeycomb structure inside. I guess Taylor would also fit into this realm although they do use X-bracing (though not scalloped) and they build dreadnaughts shaped bodies).

So you really can't make an exact comparison between a Collings C10 and a Gibson L00 or a Collings D1A to a 1937 D18, as they are built differently, and this difference in building techniques makes them sound different. To say which is better is a matter of opinion. I think that anyone who plays one of the better examples of a 1930's Martin (D18, D28, OM, etc.) or a 1930's Gibson will be very impressed with how they sound. You can't understand the sound from the sound clips on the internet, you have to really play one. It is a magical experience that just makes you not want to stop playing. Playing a 1930's Gibson L00 is amazing, and there is no builder today that matches that tone exactly. I personally think that the imperfection of the construction helps it sound how it does (John Greven says he tries to build his L00 copies as quick as possible, as this is how they were built back then, and he believes it helps the guitar sound more like an L00, I think he builds the best L00 syled guitar today).

Okay this is getting to be a rant, but the point is, that they are all great guitars, just different. I think that the Blazer and Henkes and the Hendersons of today will sound similar to a pre war Martin or Gibson in 70 years. The collings will sound amazing in 70 years, but they will sound different to a pre-war Martin or Gibson. Aging will not change that fact. But it's what you prefer that mattters.

I have nothing against George and he certainly knows far more about guitars, woods, the different builders than I but I can't help but notice that he makes a lot of money buying and selling 1930s era guitars and he needs to build up the market for his bread and butter.
I love my Collings. I can't afford a 1930's OM. I don't feel that I am missing much by having a $4,500 2007 guitar instead of a $25,000 1930's guitar that I have to worry about and baby.
I think part of what George says is pure marketing.