Papi,

I would tend to agree with you on that one. I have played about a half dozen of his earlier guitars from the 80's and thought they were good, but not great. The two newer ones I have played (one being my own) are both great guitars. I think he definitely learned a thing or two during his sabbatical, which you can both see and hear, and the woods on these new guitars have been exceptional.

I can't make any global remarks about this, but mine is from 1978, and as indicated I found it to be sufficiently good to buy it in 2002 in preference to all available alternatives I encountered at that time.

Some others who have played it have also felt it was pretty darned good. Enough to make posts on discussion forums about it.

Are ALL of them from back then that good? I've no idea, I haven't played any others. Is mine the only one that's that good? I doubt it, from posts I've read.

Are the new ones better? I've no idea, I haven't played any. If they are, you should DEFINITELY buy one.

I will say this though:
- the instruments made 1976-1981 or so were made by a small shop, not by a solo luthier.
I don't know how much difference this made, but it certainly could make a difference.
- There was competition then, but not like now, especially for OMs;
-Factory quality control in that era is not what it is now; (to the extent they were a factory; not sure this is really relevant for their operation at the time)
- one would hope that a luthier would learn something, to some degree, over the course of 30 years.

On the other hand;
-they had great wood back then;
- Per an interview: In the early days he spent
many more hours on each guitar. Part of learning over 30 years was towards working more profitably. Spending fewer hours per instrument does not obviously, in and of itself,lead to the instruments themselves being better.

He even went out and sawed down the trees to get the logs for the guitar tops, back then.

- Thirty years of aging is generally supposed to help improve a guitar's tone, I understand.

This doesn't necessarily mean that each instrument he makes in one era is better than each and every instrument he made in some other era, either way.

One difference might be: Most of the earlier OMs were made with 1-11/16" nut widths; that was standard, as is also the case with Collings OMs now. But back then I suspect few players varied from that standard, where now I daresay as many or more OMs are spec'd with wider nut widths. This reflects the times though, not quality.

So can somebody dislike a particular 80s Franklin that happens to cross his bench? No doubt. Does that mean they are all just like that one? I don't think so. Generalizing, between now vs. then? These are fairly rare guitars altogether, few people have played enough examples from each period to be in a position to do that authoritatively. Nick can, of course.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: D2H2259,

Well, guess I'll chime in here. I played my first Franklin (an older model) at a collector friends house. It was the last guitar he brought out after several hours of playing 30's prewar Martins, Collings CW's, Tony Rice Santa Cruz (including one Tony previously owned) etc. The Franklin grabbed my attention. Not saying it was better than the prewars (which still haunt me) but it stood out after playing all these incredible instruments. I then played everything I could get my hands on. Two trips to dream guitars, some real nice instruments, but nothing grabbed me. I had Mike Joyce send out the Franklin I now own and knew in ten seconds this was THE guitar. I haven't had a chance to A/B it with my friends older model but will soon and report back. Nick told me he's bracing the new ones different. Mine is light as a feather and incredibly responsive. They are amazing instruments as I'm sure others are. This one rang my bell though.

Will someone please tell me if the Franklin Braz/German OM is louder than a Collings. Also is it a darker, bassier sound?
If not. Is there such an OM in existence anywhere out there that is louder or darker than a Collings OM?

Mine is significantly warmer than a Collings (at least the ones I've played, which are a pretty decent number actually), to my ear. Yet, neverthless it has fat trebles and single notes shine through.

When I had my Collings, on some days the clarity of the single notes just glistened from the guitar, but on other days frankly it sounded almost metallicly trebly and shrill to me. By contrast, every day when I pick up the Franklin it just sounds wonderful to me. Not the same as the collings, but wonderful.

(Of course my playing doesn't always sound wonderful, but that's a different issue.)

It has plenty of volume, but I wouldn't say it is obviously louder than a Collings. quite possibly the contrary. Collings makes pretty darned loud guitars.

I haven't A/B'd them in this regard though, when I had both makers' instruments at the same time, the Collings was a D2H and the Franklin was an OM. So not "apples to apples".

As for other makers, by my ears actually most of them make guitars that are more bass-emphasized than Collings guitars. Or maybe the best way to say it is less midrange-emphasized. A typical high-level Martin OM will meet that test.
But again, I wouldn't necessarily say louder.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: D2H2259,

The reason i asked is because, that's what Mike Joyce of Luthiers Collection said to me today per phone conversation, when i asked him to describe the Franklin OM sound.
Of course i'm not expecting it to sound louder than a Collings, Collings are about the loudest i've ever played. But, i would not think it impossible from a guitar as fine as Franklin.

Sounds like we are on the same page in any event;

But as I am describing an older instrument that is not for sale;

and he is describing a newer instrument that is for sale;

The characteristics of his instrument might be more germane.

Of course wood being wood, and customers being customers, they probably all sound at least somewhat different anyway.

Papi - I've never played a Franklin OM, so I can't comment on the direct comparison to Collings. I've owned and sold a couple Collings OM's, they just never did anything for me. That said, I've found several other maker's OM's to be generally less "metallic," perhaps darker than Collings. More to the point, I've bought and sold several guitars through Luthier's Collection and find Mike to be pretty accurate and honest in his descriptions. Please let us know if you get that guitar and what you think!

(OT - hey you want a "real" guitar? Check out the Claxton Malabar Mike has for sale, that one is just fantastic!)

I saw the Claxton, but i'm very set on Franklin, or Borges. Kim Walker's waiting list is years away, i'm afraid i won't be alive anymore by the time he's done, plus the price does'nt get fixed in untill he starts the guitar in about 10 years. Both Nick and Julius are very nice people to talk to, Julius is a mad man for sure. I really like the way Mike Joyce talked about the 2007 Franklin Braz/German. the Brazilian on that guitar is close to 300 years old and it is the straightest Brazilian i have ever seen. I was very honest with him and told him i needed a couple more months, but he said that particular guitar would probably be sold before the end of the week. And since that's the one i pretty much have my heart set on, well, i don't know.

Well, I'll see what happens, it's not very easy to come up with $10,500.

Papi,

To answer a previous question you asked, I found that my mahogany Franklin OM was noticeably louder than my OM1A varnish, and the OM1A is a very robust and powerful guitar. But, since you've mentioned Claxton, I find my Claxton a bit louder than the Franklin. Mind you, louder does not always mean better in my book, since too much volume can be detrimental at times... depending on the quality of the tone.

I've also dealt extensively with Mike at Luthier's Collection without ever having an issue. I bet you I've bought and sold over 25 guitars through Mike since 2002 and I've never had an issue of any kind. I cannot say that about the "other" high end boutique dealer a lot of people mention regularly on these forums.

Papi, When I asked Mike about my Franklin he said it was as loud as most Dreds! I have a Collings D1A and would have to agree. Additional icing on the cake; Mike said if I wanted to sell the guitar back to him in three years he would pay the original price. With the situation on Brazillian (and Nick said mine was over two hundred year old wood) I see it going up in value.

Another thing I love about my Franklin,. that nobody here's mentioned yet, is the "loose" feel to the strings.It's a standard 25.4"or so scale, but it frets as if it's 24.9". There are some other makes I've played along the way that feel noticably stiff, well this one plays noticably loose. Easy to fret. Yet the volume is still all there.

Anybody notice if he's retained this characteristic in the newer guitars?

For all I know it could just be something about mine, setup or something; as I said I haven't played many.