In my view, there isn't just one. The best way to look at this is to see a progression of greatest players over time. In my opinion, the line goes: Doc, then Clarence, then Tony, then David. Last names for these folks are obviously not needed

What say you?

Good start. I think we need Dan Crary in there, somewhere between Clarence White and Tony Rice, or parallel with Mr. Rice. Certainly he was a great influence on a lot of players.

As for Mr. Grier, I would not put him as an extension of the line, beyond Tony Rice. Very fine player - sure. But of the ground-breaking magnitude of the other players mentioned -- not yet.

Alex, I agree that David has not had the degree of influence on others that Doc, Clarence, and Tony have accomplished. The major ground-breaking had already taken place by the others mentioned. However, as being THE picker at his particular time, in my opinion David is right where he should be in the line. Believe me, I remain a huge fan of Tony's, and many others on the scene today (for ex., Bryan Sutton and Kenny Smith, to name just two more). Just my opinion, but David is just on a different level at present. He is not of this Earth

norman??? no one has said norman blake. why?

norman blake live at mccabe's......arkansas traveler.......it just does not get any better than that.

Interesting to think about, anyway. One question I would have is if CW actually developed his playing based somewhat on Doc's....I guess I thought he kind of developed his playing on his own.

Crary is an interesting case. I, too, have heard that he influenced a lot of folks. And I can think of no-one who's more technically impressive: amazing note-by-note clarity and power at blazing speed. But, for me, his playing is almost too precise and metronomic. After a while his music just leaves me cold.

As for Rice and Grier, it seems to me that David blew past Rice with Lone Soldier, about 1990, and has left him far, far behind. Tony's powerful and accomplished playing is certainly distinctive, and has inspired many imitators. But, for my money, he's mostly just noodling, and one solo sounds pretty much like the next. If Grier has not inspired as many imitators, I would guess most folks are daunted by the depth and complexity of his playing. There seems to be literally nothing that is beyond him. In my humble and no doubt unsophisticated opinion, anyway.

B

Clarence was heavily influenced by Doc. And Tony was heavily influence by Clarence.

Mary, I certainly share your view that Norman is an extraordinary player (and overall talent), and of course, Whiskey Before Breakfast has many tunes of outrageous picking. But if I was looking for THE picker of his period, I've got to go Tony.

As for David, check out on YouTube the version of Bill Cheathum with David, Kenny Smith and Wyatt Rice. I love Kenny's playing, but when the solo passes from Kenny to David, well, it goes to another level in my book. A guitar player playing on the same stage with David is like someone playing B-Ball against Michael Jordan.

As B, mentioned, it's interesting to think about. That's why I raised the question. I fully appreciate that my view is just that, my own view. Plenty of room for other views, particularly with all that great pickin going on.

And with each of these successive "pioneer" flatpickers, the field has broadened. Maybe Doc was the only one at his time. Maybe Clarence was one of two. Tony and Dan were a couple of the many. Today's great flatpicker is one of hundreds or thousands as this style has turned into a genre. Each flatpicker today has a great wealth to build upon, but it's probably more difficult to break new ground.

I have to agree that Grier's playing is the best. Powerful, rhythmic, inventive, melodic, varied, beautiful, crazy at times... I like the other guys too, but David sure stands out.

How do we define flatpicking? Bluegrass-derived American music, or music played with a plectrum? If it's the latter, Django. Not even taking into account the whole left hand finger thing. Extraterrestrial. tom

Good point Tom. I meant, but didn't say, Bluegrass guitar played with a flatpick. BTW, from what I've read, Clarence, Tony and David have all done a whole lot of listening to Django (and both Tony and David have done tunes clearly inspired by Django). Bet Doc would dig him too. What player wouldn't

an immeasurable influence, and a great dose of humility anytime you think you're getting pretty hot. three minutes of "Shine" and I'm right back in my proper place: the middle. tom

Speed alone does not a great guitarist make. Vide Al DiMeola vs John McLaughlin. No contest IMO with JM on top. Taste, touch, tone, timing, provenance, also count.
Doc's version of Jimmy Rodgers' Texas Blues alone is enough to place him at the head of the pantheon, let alone the Vanguard years stuff, then CW, TR....wide gulf...then the also rans.

A friend and I must've had a really off day or maybe Grier did but we saw him in LA fairly recently in an intimate setting and were quite unequivocally underwhelmed by the experience. Heck, I'd be inclined to even take Kaufmann or Beppe Gambetta over him. Crary is kinda cold and clinical for my taste.

So now someone's going to have to counter and ask about fingerstylists...please.

sonoman wrote:

quote:

How do we define flatpicking? Bluegrass-derived American music, or music played with a plectrum? If it's the latter, Django. Not even taking into account the whole left hand finger thing. Extraterrestrial. tom

I never thought of Django as bluegrass.

When Potter Stewart tried to put a definition on hard-porn pornography in a case before the Supreme Court, he found it impossible so he ended up famously saying: "I know it when I see it" . . .

Bluegrass?? "Couldn't say, but I know it when I hear it . . ."